Godulike An irreverent look at the faith industry Buy Godulike Stuff at Shopulike    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Children Of Addicts Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next          Godulike Forum Index -> Polls View previous topic :: View next topic   Would you endorse the temp removal of the child Yes, being brough up seeing parents use smack is abusive in itself, and therefore, it is justified  33%  [ 2 ] Yes, but the worry would be what to do about other addicts, such as drinkers...  33%  [ 2 ] You would not remove the child for the observing the intake of smack, alone. Only if there was abuse.  33%  [ 2 ] Something else, but say what!  0%  [ 0 ] Total Votes : 6 Author Message Yahweh Why isn't anybody listening? Joined: 01 Mar 2023 Posts: 605 Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 3:51 am    Post subject: Children Of Addicts Just recently, a couple in their 20's here were charged, after their little baby somehoe consumed some of their methadone. Then there are case after case of neglect going hand in hand with an acute addiction, as it were. Children seeing a life they should not see, children who will be denied even the most basic care, as all the parents really care for is there next bag of shit, if they are addicts. People speak pf human rights, and I am all for that right enough. In this case, I am all for the human rights of the child. Therefore, I feel that there is a case for saying that chidren of smack addicts should be removed, and placed in good fostercare, untik a time when their parent has been off smack for 6 months. It might sound harsh, but we have to give the poor wee buggers, the kids, half a chance, and them seeing their junkie parenst shoot ip, or smoke off foil, that is hardly a help, therefore, they are the number one concern. Would you support the removal, for a time, of the children of parents that were heavy known addicts, with a police record for it, and a medical record for it, for the sake of that child? _________________ https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw Back to top Rat_bytes But is reflection proof of life? Joined: 22 May 2023 Posts: 3108 Location: Australia Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:15 am    Post subject: Fuck yes. Living in an area that's thick with junkies, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the removal of a child from that kind of environment - for the simple reason that the smack will always be a higher priority than the child. Additionally, how the hell is a parent supposed to look after a child if they're doped up on the couch smiling at the colourful spheres behind their eyes? Kids need constant supervision, and a smack addict can't even look after themselves, let alone a tiny, fragile, impressionable human being. Halfway houses are horrible places, but the alternative is much much worse. Simple choice - if you want to keep your children, don't take debilitating drugs like meth or horse. Every kid deserves a decent upbringing with parents who are willing to give all they can. _________________ Las Reglas De la Rata. Back to top Yahweh Why isn't anybody listening? Joined: 01 Mar 2023 Posts: 605 Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:46 pm    Post subject: Rat_bytes wrote: Fuck yes. Living in an area that's thick with junkies, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the removal of a child from that kind of environment - for the simple reason that the smack will always be a higher priority than the child. Additionally, how the hell is a parent supposed to look after a child if they're doped up on the couch smiling at the colourful spheres behind their eyes? Kids need constant supervision, and a smack addict can't even look after themselves, let alone a tiny, fragile, impressionable human being. Halfway houses are horrible places, but the alternative is much much worse. Simple choice - if you want to keep your children, don't take debilitating drugs like meth or horse. Every kid deserves a decent upbringing with parents who are willing to give all they can. See, I would agree with you, however, what about other addicts, mate? What about someone addicted to drink or gambling, could it be said that their children could be just as neglected, and if so, would you remove those kids too? _________________ https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw Back to top Rat_bytes But is reflection proof of life? Joined: 22 May 2023 Posts: 3108 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:22 am    Post subject: Yahweh wrote: What about someone addicted to drink or gambling, could it be said that their children could be just as neglected, and if so, would you remove those kids too? It's not the same. People who are addicted to alcohol or gambling are still able to lead some semblance of a normal life - a junkie cannot, because he can't worry about anything except his next fix. People who are heroin addicts quickly descend into the depths of immorality, stealing from people in order to get enough money to fly. _________________ Las Reglas De la Rata. Back to top Yahweh Why isn't anybody listening? Joined: 01 Mar 2023 Posts: 605 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:53 am    Post subject: Rat_bytes wrote: Yahweh wrote: What about someone addicted to drink or gambling, could it be said that their children could be just as neglected, and if so, would you remove those kids too? It's not the same. People who are addicted to alcohol or gambling are still able to lead some semblance of a normal life - a junkie cannot, because he can't worry about anything except his next fix. People who are heroin addicts quickly descend into the depths of immorality, stealing from people in order to get enough money to fly. Actually, I would agree with you, and was having the same debate on my forum mate, however, it seems that we have some persuading to do! https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/ethics.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=17114&LastModified=4675582255300384863 _________________ https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw Back to top Rat_bytes But is reflection proof of life? Joined: 22 May 2023 Posts: 3108 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:28 am    Post subject: They don't agree because they haven't seen the effects of smack, and thus they think it's the same as any other addictive drug. It's not. Horse is the worst drug one could possibly be addicted to (with crack cocaine coming in at a close second), and it would be immoral and irresponsible to leave a child with someone who's addicted to that kind of poison. _________________ Las Reglas De la Rata. Back to top seattlegal Oh look! It's a mirror! Joined: 13 Feb 2024 Posts: 1644 Location: fishing in muddy waters Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:00 am    Post subject: When the government gets into separating children from their parents, each case must be weighed on an individual basis, and definite evidence of abuse must be presented. It cannot be based upon rumour, nor on prejudice, nor any other excuse. If it is not individually weighed and based upon evidence of abuse, then the whole process becomes vulnerable to corruption by those in government who not interested in protecting the children, but are only interested in taking people's children in order to indoctrinate them. That is elitist fascism. Click here and investigate what Plato had to say about elitist, fascist government taking people's children. _________________ The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form. Back to top Anonymous Guest Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:39 am    Post subject: YWH: Broadly Speaking ... ... I'd be in favour of removal of the child i.e. that such parental behaviour does constitute abuse but I think there has to be a little give and take. If the parents were willing to consider rehabilitation or if removal from that environment were seen to do more harm than good then I guess no. Kyu Back to top Rat_bytes But is reflection proof of life? Joined: 22 May 2023 Posts: 3108 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:01 am    Post subject: seattlegal wrote: When the government gets into separating children from their parents, each case must be weighed on an individual basis, and definite evidence of abuse must be presented. It cannot be based upon rumour, nor on prejudice, nor any other excuse. If it is not individually weighed and based upon evidence of abuse, then the whole process becomes vulnerable to corruption by those in government who not interested in protecting the children, but are only interested in taking people's children in order to indoctrinate them. That is elitist fascism. Click here and investigate what Plato had to say about elitist, fascist government taking people's children. I agree totally with you regarding the individual case bit, but I think that we shouldn't be so scared of taking children away from abusive parents. Part of the problem now is that the system isn't harsh enough, so children can be left with parents who - simply put - don't deserve them in the slightest. I'm not talking here about underpriveliged or poor people having children, I'm talking about people who are alcoholics or heroin addicts who put a higher priority on their addictions than they do upon their children. Kids frequently grow up in harmful environments such as these, and then bring up their own children into a life of abuse and/or addiction, thus continuing the cycle of neglect. _________________ Las Reglas De la Rata. Back to top seattlegal Oh look! It's a mirror! Joined: 13 Feb 2024 Posts: 1644 Location: fishing in muddy waters Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:08 am    Post subject: Rat_bytes wrote: seattlegal wrote: When the government gets into separating children from their parents, each case must be weighed on an individual basis, and definite evidence of abuse must be presented. It cannot be based upon rumour, nor on prejudice, nor any other excuse. If it is not individually weighed and based upon evidence of abuse, then the whole process becomes vulnerable to corruption by those in government who not interested in protecting the children, but are only interested in taking people's children in order to indoctrinate them. That is elitist fascism. Click here and investigate what Plato had to say about elitist, fascist government taking people's children. I agree totally with you regarding the individual case bit, but I think that we shouldn't be so scared of taking children away from abusive parents. Part of the problem now is that the system isn't harsh enough, so children can be left with parents who - simply put - don't deserve them in the slightest. I'm not talking here about underpriveliged or poor people having children, I'm talking about people who are alcoholics or heroin addicts who put a higher priority on their addictions than they do upon their children. Kids frequently grow up in harmful environments such as these, and then bring up their own children into a life of abuse and/or addiction, thus continuing the cycle of neglect. That is way the focus must not be shifted away from actual neglect. If you shift the focus towards circumstances or scenerios that might be associated with neglect, then you might get people framing good parents by "planting" drugs or whatever in order to take the children. {Could you picture some "fundy" planting drugs on you in order to take your children, to "save" the children from having atheist parents?} _________________ The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form. Back to top Yahweh Why isn't anybody listening? Joined: 01 Mar 2023 Posts: 605 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:51 pm    Post subject: seattlegal wrote: Rat_bytes wrote: seattlegal wrote: When the government gets into separating children from their parents, each case must be weighed on an individual basis, and definite evidence of abuse must be presented. It cannot be based upon rumour, nor on prejudice, nor any other excuse. If it is not individually weighed and based upon evidence of abuse, then the whole process becomes vulnerable to corruption by those in government who not interested in protecting the children, but are only interested in taking people's children in order to indoctrinate them. That is elitist fascism. Click here and investigate what Plato had to say about elitist, fascist government taking people's children. I agree totally with you regarding the individual case bit, but I think that we shouldn't be so scared of taking children away from abusive parents. Part of the problem now is that the system isn't harsh enough, so children can be left with parents who - simply put - don't deserve them in the slightest. I'm not talking here about underpriveliged or poor people having children, I'm talking about people who are alcoholics or heroin addicts who put a higher priority on their addictions than they do upon their children. Kids frequently grow up in harmful environments such as these, and then bring up their own children into a life of abuse and/or addiction, thus continuing the cycle of neglect. That is way the focus must not be shifted away from actual neglect. If you shift the focus towards circumstances or scenerios that might be associated with neglect, then you might get people framing good parents by "planting" drugs or whatever in order to take the children. {Could you picture some "fundy" planting drugs on you in order to take your children, to "save" the children from having atheist parents?} Imho, addicts to smack neglect by default, and for all the reasons that Rats has stated. With respect, maybe we just more insight into real smackheads that you, I dunno, just a thought. _________________ https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw Back to top seattlegal Oh look! It's a mirror! Joined: 13 Feb 2024 Posts: 1644 Location: fishing in muddy waters Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:58 pm    Post subject: Yahweh wrote: Imho, addicts to smack neglect by default, and for all the reasons that Rats has stated. With respect, maybe we just more insight into real smackheads that you, I dunno, just a thought. Gee, what if you had a manipulative, rebellious teenager who was upset with you because of some reasonable restriction or punishment you placed upon them. {Oh, let's say that you forbid them from running the streets at 3:00 AM, or something like that.} This manipulative teenager decides that not being allowed to run the street at 3:00 AM is unreasonable and hateful, and decides to seek revenge. The teenager obtains some smack, hides it in the house, and calls the governmental authorities, saying, "My parent is a drug addict, and I want out of this house." When an authority shows up, this teen then proceeds to show this authority where they stashed the smack, saying, "Oh, this is where my parent stashes the drugs. They shoot it up under their toenails, in order to hide the needle tracts." "Oh," says the authority, "even though I see no other sign of neglect or abuse, I must remove you from parental custody, because a law was just passed saying, 'addicts to smack neglect by default,' and no further investigation is necessary. Don't worry, we have a nice Jewish family that will take good care of you." _________________ The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form. Back to top Yahweh Why isn't anybody listening? Joined: 01 Mar 2023 Posts: 605 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:37 pm    Post subject: seattlegal wrote: Yahweh wrote: Imho, addicts to smack neglect by default, and for all the reasons that Rats has stated. With respect, maybe we just more insight into real smackheads that you, I dunno, just a thought. Gee, what if you had a manipulative, rebellious teenager who was upset with you because of some reasonable restriction or punishment you placed upon them. {Oh, let's say that you forbid them from running the streets at 3:00 AM, or something like that.} This manipulative teenager decides that not being allowed to run the street at 3:00 AM is unreasonable and hateful, and decides to seek revenge. The teenager obtains some smack, hides it in the house, and calls the governmental authorities, saying, "My parent is a drug addict, and I want out of this house." When an authority shows up, this teen then proceeds to show this authority where they stashed the smack, saying, "Oh, this is where my parent stashes the drugs. They shoot it up under their toenails, in order to hide the needle tracts." "Oh," says the authority, "even though I see no other sign of neglect or abuse, I must remove you from parental custody, because a law was just passed saying, 'addicts to smack neglect by default,' and no further investigation is necessary. Don't worry, we have a nice Jewish family that will take good care of you." That analogy let's you down somewhat. What would happen if the same teenager, with the same level of being pissed off, for the same reasons, hides some smack in the house, then calls the police? Answer = You go to jail, do not pass go! So, in effect, what you are talking of could happen anyway. Do you have much experience of being in the company of people ADDICTED to smack? _________________ https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw Back to top Rat_bytes But is reflection proof of life? Joined: 22 May 2023 Posts: 3108 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:11 pm    Post subject: Seattle, nobody's talking about passing draconian laws that operate under a blanket principal, we're just saying that people who are under the oppressive reign of a heroin addiction DO NOT MAKE GOOD PARENTS. There is NO WAY a parent who is a junkie would make a decent parent, since an addiction to this manner of drug renders everything BUT the drug irrelevant in the person's life. Their existance is focused around flying again, and nothing else. Believe me, they have no problem with lying, cheating, stealing, even hurting other people if it means that they'll get just one more fix. Heroin is an evil drug, and the less children who are exposed to the effects of it, the better. And for the record, it's fairly easy to ascertain whether someone is an addict or not, so your analogy kinda falls down in that respect. _________________ Las Reglas De la Rata. Back to top Yahweh Why isn't anybody listening? Joined: 01 Mar 2023 Posts: 605 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:31 pm    Post subject: Rat_bytes wrote: Seattle, nobody's talking about passing draconian laws that operate under a blanket principal, we're just saying that people who are under the oppressive reign of a heroin addiction DO NOT MAKE GOOD PARENTS. There is NO WAY a parent who is a junkie would make a decent parent, since an addiction to this manner of drug renders everything BUT the drug irrelevant in the person's life. Their existance is focused around flying again, and nothing else. Believe me, they have no problem with lying, cheating, stealing, even hurting other people if it means that they'll get just one more fix. Heroin is an evil drug, and the less children who are exposed to the effects of it, the better. And for the record, it's fairly easy to ascertain whether someone is an addict or not, so your analogy kinda falls down in that respect. What he just said. _________________ https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         Godulike Forum Index -> Polls All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next Page 1 of 6   Jump to: Select a forum Godulike discussion----------------Open MindsPollsRantsFaith-Without-FearFaithless-Without-FearLight My Fire  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group