 |
Godulike
An irreverent look at the faith industry
Buy Godulike Stuff at Shopulike
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Would you endorse the temp removal of the child |
| Yes, being brough up seeing parents use smack is abusive in itself, and therefore, it is justified |
|
33% |
[ 2 ] |
| Yes, but the worry would be what to do about other addicts, such as drinkers... |
|
33% |
[ 2 ] |
| You would not remove the child for the observing the intake of smack, alone. Only if there was abuse. |
|
33% |
[ 2 ] |
| Something else, but say what! |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 6 |
|
| Author |
Message |
seattlegal
Oh look! It's a mirror!
Joined: 13 Feb 2024
Posts: 1644
Location: fishing in muddy waters
|
 Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:41 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Rat_bytes wrote: | Seattle, nobody's talking about passing draconian laws that operate under a blanket principal, we're just saying that people who are under the oppressive reign of a heroin addiction DO NOT MAKE GOOD PARENTS. There is NO WAY a parent who is a junkie would make a decent parent, since an addiction to this manner of drug renders everything BUT the drug irrelevant in the person's life. Their existance is focused around flying again, and nothing else. Believe me, they have no problem with lying, cheating, stealing, even hurting other people if it means that they'll get just one more fix. Heroin is an evil drug, and the less children who are exposed to the effects of it, the better.
And for the record, it's fairly easy to ascertain whether someone is an addict or not, so your analogy kinda falls down in that respect. |
Well, then there is no reason to draw the focus of the law away from abuse. If the parent is an abusive smack addict, the abuse would be manifest. Keep the focus of the law on abuse. You can use educational/outreach programs to establish the ties between smack addiction and abuse, to be applied in a preventative manner, but keep the law focused on abuse. Once you shift the focus of the law from abuse, and onto something else, then the law becomes more vulnerable to manipulation and unrighteous applications. Tyrannical despotism is born by employing such techniques, and not always consciously.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
_________________
The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rat_bytes
But is reflection proof of life?
Joined: 22 May 2023
Posts: 3108
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| seattlegal wrote: | | Rat_bytes wrote: | Seattle, nobody's talking about passing draconian laws that operate under a blanket principal, we're just saying that people who are under the oppressive reign of a heroin addiction DO NOT MAKE GOOD PARENTS. There is NO WAY a parent who is a junkie would make a decent parent, since an addiction to this manner of drug renders everything BUT the drug irrelevant in the person's life. Their existance is focused around flying again, and nothing else. Believe me, they have no problem with lying, cheating, stealing, even hurting other people if it means that they'll get just one more fix. Heroin is an evil drug, and the less children who are exposed to the effects of it, the better.
And for the record, it's fairly easy to ascertain whether someone is an addict or not, so your analogy kinda falls down in that respect. |
Well, then there is no reason to draw the focus of the law away from abuse. If the parent is an abusive smack addict, the abuse would be manifest. Keep the focus of the law on abuse. You can use educational/outreach programs to establish the ties between smack addiction and abuse, to be applied in a preventative manner, but keep the law focused on abuse. Once you shift the focus of the law from abuse, and onto something else, then the law becomes more vulnerable to manipulation and unrighteous applications. Tyrannical despotism is born by employing such techniques, and not always consciously.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." |
But the law is clearly inadequate. Children ARE being brought up by junkies, and they're continuing the cycle of disfunctionality. Obviously what we're doing at the moment isn't working, so what can we do to change it?
_________________
Las Reglas De la Rata.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seattlegal
Oh look! It's a mirror!
Joined: 13 Feb 2024
Posts: 1644
Location: fishing in muddy waters
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rat_bytes wrote: | But the law is clearly inadequate. Children ARE being brought up by junkies, and they're continuing the cycle of disfunctionality. Obviously what we're doing at the moment isn't working, so what can we do to change it?
|
Add education programs, and enforce the laws that are in place.
_________________
The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yahweh
Why isn't anybody listening?
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| seattlegal wrote: | | Rat_bytes wrote: | But the law is clearly inadequate. Children ARE being brought up by junkies, and they're continuing the cycle of disfunctionality. Obviously what we're doing at the moment isn't working, so what can we do to change it?
|
Add education programs, and enforce the laws that are in place. |
Been done.
Might work for future generations, might not.
I would guess not, given that this has been done, at no small cost, and did not work.
Sorry.
I would love it to.
But it hasn't.
_________________
https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seattlegal
Oh look! It's a mirror!
Joined: 13 Feb 2024
Posts: 1644
Location: fishing in muddy waters
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yahweh wrote: | | seattlegal wrote: | | Rat_bytes wrote: | But the law is clearly inadequate. Children ARE being brought up by junkies, and they're continuing the cycle of disfunctionality. Obviously what we're doing at the moment isn't working, so what can we do to change it?
|
Add education programs, and enforce the laws that are in place. |
Been done.
Might work for future generations, might not.
I would guess not, given that this has been done, at no small cost, and did not work.
Sorry.
I would love it to.
But it hasn't. |
I would still say that the education is inadequate in regards to the dangers of smack. Law is meant to deal with abuse. Education is meant to deal with associations between things. Law lowers intelligence, common sense, and awareness by teaching avoidance through fear, but not teaching shame. Education raises intelligence, common sense, and awareness, but is also successful in developing a sense of shame towards wrong doing in people. (At least, according to Confucious.)
It seems like if you instill some common sense into the people regarding the perils of smack, you will gain some ground on the problem. Law is far less effective in instilling common sense in that its application is more narrowly focused, and is based upon avoidance and fear. It's difficult to make common sense connections while practicing avoidance of the law.
That is way smack is so dangerous. It steals what little common sense these people had before they became addicts. Education is the key to restoring this lost common sense.
_________________
The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yahweh
Why isn't anybody listening?
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| seattlegal wrote: | | Yahweh wrote: | | seattlegal wrote: | | Rat_bytes wrote: | But the law is clearly inadequate. Children ARE being brought up by junkies, and they're continuing the cycle of disfunctionality. Obviously what we're doing at the moment isn't working, so what can we do to change it?
|
Add education programs, and enforce the laws that are in place. |
Been done.
Might work for future generations, might not.
I would guess not, given that this has been done, at no small cost, and did not work.
Sorry.
I would love it to.
But it hasn't. |
I would still say that the education is inadequate in regards to the dangers of smack. Law is meant to deal with abuse. Education is meant to deal with associations between things. Law lowers intelligence, common sense, and awareness by teaching avoidance through fear, but not teaching shame. Education raises intelligence, common sense, and awareness, but is also successful in developing a sense of shame towards wrong doing in people. (At least, according to Confucious.)
It seems like if you instill some common sense into the people regarding the perils of smack, you will gain some ground on the problem. Law is far less effective in instilling common sense in that its application is more narrowly focused, and is based upon avoidance and fear. It's difficult to make common sense connections while practicing avoidance of the law.
That is way smack is so dangerous. It steals what little common sense these people had before they became addicts. Education is the key to restoring this lost common sense. |
Education has been tried.
It failed.
Any other ideas?
_________________
https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rat_bytes
But is reflection proof of life?
Joined: 22 May 2023
Posts: 3108
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| seattlegal wrote: | | Education is the key to restoring this lost common sense. |
Education never works because they always adopt a "they're just trying to spoil our fun" attitude. I guess it would be more effective if they weren't also trying to "educate" people about the "dangers" of innocuous drugs like marjuana.
_________________
Las Reglas De la Rata.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yahweh
Why isn't anybody listening?
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rat_bytes wrote: | | seattlegal wrote: | | Education is the key to restoring this lost common sense. |
Education never works because they always adopt a "they're just trying to spoil our fun" attitude. I guess it would be more effective if they weren't also trying to "educate" people about the "dangers" of innocuous drugs like marjuana. |
I remember, in the v early 80's, there was a well intended, yet patently useless TV campaign that was aimed at kids
The message?
"Just Say No"..... 
Pretty high impact, that one.
It made me cringe so much I sniffed some glue, and died.
So a PRIZE on offer to anyone that can come up with a sensible alternative to what has been proposed thus far.
* WARNING - NO PRIZES WILL BE GIVEN *
_________________
https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rat_bytes
But is reflection proof of life?
Joined: 22 May 2023
Posts: 3108
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2023 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yahweh wrote: | The message?
"Just Say No".....
Pretty high impact, that one. |
The problem is that they just try too damn hard. They try to make it "cool" or "hip" or whatever, and all they succeed in doing is making themselves look clumsy and stupid, and cheapening the message they're trying to send.
_________________
Las Reglas De la Rata.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yahweh
Why isn't anybody listening?
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 605
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rat_bytes
But is reflection proof of life?
Joined: 22 May 2023
Posts: 3108
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2023 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yahweh wrote: | The reality is that the war on drugs, such as it is termed, will NEVER be won. FACT. Even senior police officals admit this.  |
Well, it's because it's not a war. They only call it a war because people in authority love declaring "war" on things, the reality of it is that it can only be won through educating people about EVERYTHING, not just about drugs, and through a better understanding of how our bodies work. A little bit of social responsiblity wouldn't go astray, either.
_________________
Las Reglas De la Rata.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yahweh
Why isn't anybody listening?
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rat_bytes wrote: | | Yahweh wrote: | | The reality is that the war on drugs, such as it is termed, will NEVER be won. FACT. Even senior police officals admit this. |
Well, it's because it's not a war. They only call it a war because people in authority love declaring "war" on things, the reality of it is that it can only be won through educating people about EVERYTHING, not just about drugs, and through a better understanding of how our bodies work. A little bit of social responsiblity wouldn't go astray, either. |
Mate, the fact is that all junkes already know what smack is doing to them, they need only go look in the mirror to see their gaunt and wasted bodies. Anyone that is not a full on addict, yet, has dabbled, they too can see what the drug is doing, as they need only look at any hard core, and that will be them in a year.
Fact is, people take this particular drug, imo, due to social hopelessness and deprivation. Like drink, I guess it helps them from bouncing off the walls.
They should be free to make the choice whether to take, or not.
However, their children have no choice.
I happened to be in the company recently of a man who's g/f is pregnant.
They are both still taking kit.
That baby will be born an addict, and will have to go through the agony of cold turkey. 
It will not get better for that child from that point on.
What do you think about that scenario, were a pregnant smackhead is STILL taking the bad stuff?
SG, I would like your view on that too...
_________________
https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clabhdhu
Does anyone believe me?
Joined: 27 Apr 2023
Posts: 442
Location: abroad
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wasn't going to comment on this topic because I have no personal experience or knowledge of the drugs scene but what SG wrote about law and education --
| Quote: | | I would still say that the education is inadequate in regards to the dangers of smack. Law is meant to deal with abuse. Education is meant to deal with associations between things. Law lowers intelligence, common sense, and awareness by teaching avoidance through fear, but not teaching shame. Education raises intelligence, common sense, and awareness, but is also successful in developing a sense of shame towards wrong doing in people. |
-- really chimes with my thinking on some of Britain's current social problems. As part of central government cost-cutting, there is more and more emphasis on putting laws in place and less and less spent on street-level policing; more social regulation and less social facilities; more education curricula and less classtime given to physical and social wellbeing. In its attempt to avoid being a nanny-state it has become a bullying-prefect state.
I can see that laws may need to be in place as a last resort but governments should be obliged to spend time and money on preventive measures; that has to start with education. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yahweh
Why isn't anybody listening?
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| clabhdhu wrote: | I wasn't going to comment on this topic because I have no personal experience or knowledge of the drugs scene but what SG wrote about law and education --
| Quote: | | I would still say that the education is inadequate in regards to the dangers of smack. Law is meant to deal with abuse. Education is meant to deal with associations between things. Law lowers intelligence, common sense, and awareness by teaching avoidance through fear, but not teaching shame. Education raises intelligence, common sense, and awareness, but is also successful in developing a sense of shame towards wrong doing in people. |
-- really chimes with my thinking on some of Britain's current social problems. As part of central government cost-cutting, there is more and more emphasis on putting laws in place and less and less spent on street-level policing; more social regulation and less social facilities; more education curricula and less classtime given to physical and social wellbeing. In its attempt to avoid being a nanny-state it has become a bullying-prefect state.
I can see that laws may need to be in place as a last resort but governments should be obliged to spend time and money on preventive measures; that has to start with education. |
Which, once more, has been tried and has failed.
_________________
https://groups.msn.com/Enlightenment-/_whatsnew.msnw |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clabhdhu
Does anyone believe me?
Joined: 27 Apr 2023
Posts: 442
Location: abroad
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You just like contradiction for the sake of it, do you? 
| Yahweh wrote: | | Fact is, people take this particular drug, imo, due to social hopelessness and deprivation. Like drink, I guess it helps them from bouncing off the walls. |
You recognise social deprivation as a root cause and yet you dismiss social input as a basic preventive solution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
